3. Too much collateral SC being deducted

Too much collateral SC being deducted

  • A

    In the last 33 hours I've received 5 contracts, 0 SC earned, 100 SC expected and 498GB free out of 500GB. Yet I've had roughly 540 SC deducted during the time I received these contracts. Surely this is way beyond the collateral required from me? I've set duration at 26 weeks and have had 100% uptime during the period these contracts became active.

    Here is the log of deductions from the wallet since receiving the contracts:

    Today at 20:20 0 SC
    Today at 20:20 -395.629 SC
    Today at 20:20 0 SC
    Today at 20:20 -2.5 SC
    Today at 19:42 0 SC
    Today at 19:42 -2.5 SC
    Today at 19:09 0 SC
    Today at 19:09 -73.762 SC
    Today at 17:57 0 SC
    Today at 17:57 -29.653 SC
    Today at 10:04 0 SC
    Today at 10:04 -34.961 SC
    Today at 09:11 0 SC
    Today at 09:11 -2.5 SC
    Today at 01:01 0 SC
    Today at 01:01 -2.5 SC
    2017-01-25 20:53 0 SC
    2017-01-25 20:53 -29.116 SC
    2017-01-25 13:54 0 SC
    2017-01-25 13:54 -2.5 SC

    Can anyone explain this?

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  • A

    The lack of response regarding this problem (which is still persisting) where more SC is being deducted than being earned from contracts, doesn't bode well for the mass adoption of this platform.

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  • admins

    Hey, sorry for taking a while to respond. Most of the transactions you see are host announcements (2.5 SC each). Your host will re-announce itself every time that your IP address changes, so one of the biggest things you can do to correct this is get a static IP or set up something like dydns.

    The other 5 deductions are the 5 contracts that you have formed. When you form a contract, you have to commit the collateral up front. This is for scalability, you are basically opening up a payment channel. If the person on the other side of the contract does not ever upload anything, then none of your collateral is ever put at risk and you will receive it all back at the end of the contract (up to 26 weeks, but likely closer to 13 weeks).

    Put simply, the collateral is all money that you will receive back at the end of the contract, and it is not even at risk unless the other party starts uploading data. (and even then, only a little collateral is at risk if they only upload a little, etc.)

    One likely cause of you not having much data on your machine is your dynamic ip address. It takes time for renter's to realize that you've changed IPs, and in that time if they are uploading, they will be uploading to others instead of you because they have not yet realized that you've moved to a new IP.

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  • A

    @Taek when you say static IP, do you mean the internal IP address, or the public IP address? Changing my host IP address from DHCP to fixed is possible, but I have no control over the public IP designated by my ISP (however I'm fairly certain it's fixed anyway).

    Regardless, I've changed my router settings and reserved an IP address for the host machine. From what I understand this should avoid the need to change the IP address settings within the host machine. I will monitor and come back with an update.

    I'm familiar with the idea of collateral SC being deducted and returned. To date, the amount that's been deducted is approximately 1,185 SC (not including the rogue 2.5 SC host announcement fees). Sia-UI is showing 36 active contracts, 0 SC earned, 280 SC expected. So the collateral seems grossly excessive compared to the payment for the storage. Is this normal?

    On a separate note, I calculate that this has problem has caused 68 unnecessary host announcements, totalling 170 SC. I don't remember there being any mention of this potential problem during setup and I was quite vigilant while following the setup guide. So I think it's unfair that I've had this many SC deducted without there being a prior warning to look out for this issue. I'm pretty sure that others who've had the same experience will feel the same. Obviously I'd like those SC back if possible. But more importantly this flaw needs addressing, as it is likely to confuse users and put them off using Sia. Or even worse, users may jump to the conclusion that there is something dishonest going on. So I would suggest either a prominent warning about this flaw. Or even better, an update that prevents the problem from occurring.

    It's worth pointing out that I'm not an advanced PC user, but definitely more capable than the average. As I've had a fair few issues with getting started, I'd be surprised if this doesn't affect others too. Which is bound to be off-putting for some. I'd bet that the more idiot proof Sia becomes, the more people will be interested in using it. Hopefully my feedback contributes to Sia becoming a more reliable and user friendly platform!

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  • admins

    The setup guide may not have properly discussed the consequences of having a dynamic ip address. I am not sure what you mean about internal vs public IP address, but I imagine that the software would get confused if either were changing. Generally though it's the public IP address that is the important one.

    I'm familiar with the idea of collateral SC being deducted and returned. To date, the amount that's been deducted is approximately 1,185 SC (not including the rogue 2.5 SC host announcement fees). Sia-UI is showing 36 active contracts, 0 SC earned, 280 SC expected. So the collateral seems grossly excessive compared to the payment for the storage. Is this normal?

    At this point I would say that it is normal, because we seem to have a lot of users who are creating allowances but then not using them to upload files so much. It's also possible that you are getting much less data than everyone else due to a slow download speed. Given that the collateral is not at risk, hopefully it is not a huge deal that so much has been locked up. The two things you can do to help with that are to increase your contract price and to decrease the amount of collateral you provide. It should be noted though that doing these things will lower your host's score and make you less likely to form contracts and get uploads.

    It's worth pointing out that I'm not an advanced PC user, but definitely more capable than the average. As I've had a fair few issues with getting started, I'd be surprised if this doesn't affect others too. Which is bound to be off-putting for some. I'd bet that the more idiot proof Sia becomes, the more people will be interested in using it. Hopefully my feedback contributes to Sia becoming a more reliable and user friendly platform!

    We are actively working on the user experience. Sia is a newer project and there's a lot going on behind the scenes. It's going to take time to refine into something that's easily usable. We are working in that direction though.

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  • A

    @Taek public IP is assigned by the service provider. Internal/private IP refers to the IP I can assign to specific devices (laptop, PC, etc).

    After a couple of days of monitoring it seems this problem is still persisting. Changing my IPv4 to a static address hasn't worked. Do I need to change my IPv6 to a static address as well? I'm getting frustrated now as while this problem persists SC is consistently being drained from my account.

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  • admins

    I am looking into it further. If you press ctrl+shift+L you'll bring up some logs. Can you look at the logs in the 'host' tab and see if there's anything that looks relevant?

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  • A

    @Taek I've looked through the consensus log and couldn't see any obvious correlation between the -2.5 SC drain and any of the events recorded. I carried out a system restart to see how this affected the log. I also reset the router to see if this had any effect. There has been another -2.5 SC and a new collateral deduction since the router reset. I've included a portion of the log prior to all of this and then after. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help!

    2017/02/03 19:09:30.740004 gateway.go:245: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/03 19:09:30.940090 gateway.go:343: INFO: gateway created, started logging
    2017/02/03 19:09:30.994499 persist.go:67: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/03 19:09:37.808952 upnp.go:83: INFO: our address is 94.194.51.230:9981
    2017/02/03 19:09:55.126872 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 18.244.0.29:9981 because IBD failed: Session closed
    2017/02/03 19:09:55.126872 synchronize.go:562: WARN: disconnecting from peer 18.244.0.29:9981 failed: not connected to that node
    2017/02/03 19:10:05.581522 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 50.35.112.66:9981 because IBD failed: Session closed
    2017/02/03 19:10:05.581522 synchronize.go:562: WARN: disconnecting from peer 50.35.112.66:9981 failed: not connected to that node
    2017/02/03 19:10:12.076768 upnp.go:99: WARN: could not automatically forward port 9981: no UPnP-enabled devices found: no UPnP-enabled gateway found
    2017/02/03 19:42:31.903045 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 213.162.158.38:9981 because IBD failed: Session closed
    2017/02/03 19:42:31.915884 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 24.3.145.43:9981 because IBD failed: can't call RPC on unconnected peer 24.3.145.43:9981
    2017/02/03 19:42:31.915884 synchronize.go:562: WARN: disconnecting from peer 213.162.158.38:9981 failed: not connected to that node
    2017/02/03 19:42:31.915884 synchronize.go:562: WARN: disconnecting from peer 24.3.145.43:9981 failed: not connected to that node
    2017/02/03 19:43:03.661533 peers.go:511: INFO: disconnected from peer 82.30.231.68:9981
    2017/02/03 19:43:03.661533 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 82.30.231.68:9981 because IBD failed: EOF
    2017/02/03 19:43:03.701533 synchronize.go:592: INFO: IBD done, synced with 6 peers
    2017/02/06 21:31:34.652000 gateway.go:245: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/06 21:31:34.657003 gateway.go:343: INFO: gateway created, started logging
    2017/02/06 21:31:34.661007 persist.go:67: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/06 21:31:42.315776 upnp.go:83: INFO: our address is 94.194.51.230:9981
    2017/02/06 21:31:42.990813 upnp.go:110: INFO: successfully forwarded port 9981
    2017/02/06 22:19:05.721425 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 77.48.73.189:9981 because IBD failed: write tcp 192.168.0.13:49897->77.48.73.189:9981: i/o timeout
    2017/02/06 22:19:05.785472 synchronize.go:562: WARN: disconnecting from peer 77.48.73.189:9981 failed: Shutdown already in progress
    2017/02/06 22:19:59.088289 synchronize.go:592: INFO: IBD done, synced with 7 peers
    2017/02/07 15:43:17.709721 gateway.go:245: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/07 15:43:17.906449 gateway.go:343: INFO: gateway created, started logging
    2017/02/07 15:43:17.909451 persist.go:67: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/07 15:43:22.951532 upnp.go:83: INFO: our address is 94.194.51.230:9981
    2017/02/07 15:43:27.186203 upnp.go:110: INFO: successfully forwarded port 9981
    2017/02/07 16:18:59.724292 peers.go:511: INFO: disconnected from peer 118.109.68.93:9981
    2017/02/07 16:18:59.724292 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 118.109.68.93:9981 because IBD failed: write tcp 192.168.0.13:50316->118.109.68.93:9981: i/o timeout
    2017/02/07 16:19:51.204375 synchronize.go:592: INFO: IBD done, synced with 7 peers

    RESTARTED HOST MACHINE
    2017/02/09 09:41:43.961415 gateway.go:245: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/09 09:41:43.965456 gateway.go:343: INFO: gateway created, started logging
    2017/02/09 09:41:43.969458 persist.go:67: STARTUP: Logging has started.
    2017/02/09 09:41:51.832554 upnp.go:83: INFO: our address is 94.194.51.230:9981
    2017/02/09 09:41:51.896093 upnp.go:110: INFO: successfully forwarded port 9981

    UNLOCKED WALLET
    2017/02/09 09:42:40.898598 peers.go:511: INFO: disconnected from peer 94.177.161.51:9981
    2017/02/09 09:42:40.898598 synchronize.go:554: WARN: disconnecting from peer 94.177.161.51:9981 because IBD failed: EOF
    2017/02/09 09:43:01.937772 synchronize.go:592: INFO: IBD done, synced with 7 peers

    ROUTER RESET
    2017/02/09 11:21:21.169627 nodes.go:170: WARN: peer '46.10.210.51:9981' sent the invalid addr '0.0.0.0:9981'

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  • A

    @Taek has there been any progress regarding this problem? It's been over a week since I posted the logs. All the while the problem is persisting. Not very happy about my SC being steadily drained...

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  • admins

    Hey, sorry for the delay. I think that if you set the IP address yourself, or use DyDNS, you can fix the problem. It will only auto-announce your host if you have it automatically detecting your IP address.

    try running siac host config netaddress your.ip.addr.here:9982 in the terminal plugin. That should stop the drain. I'm not sure why it is auto-announcing, but the next release will have more logs to help us get to the bottom of the problem.

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  • A

    @Taek I followed your instructions but it is still happening! Here is the message that was displayed in the terminal:

    siac host config netaddress 192.168.0.13 9982

    Usage:
    ./siac host config [setting] [value] [flags]

    Global Flags:
    -a, --addr string which host/port to communicate with (i.e. the host/port siad is listening on) (default "localhost:9980")

    Since carrying out this command 2.5 SC has been deducted from my wallet another 4 times (however they're showing as unconfirmed). The DyDNS fix you've suggested will cost me additional money. And to be honest with you, I've sunk so much time into trying to get the Sia-UI functioning properly that I have no interest in spending money on something which may, or may not work. At present I have 133 active contracts and 460 SC expected. This amount has effectively been cancelled out by the SC drain. Meaning I have to keep my host machine running for no incentive whatsoever (other than to get my collateral SC back). I've been pretty patient thus far, but I've lost all enthusiasm for the platform. Plus I'm disappointed that a refund of these erroneous SC deductions hasn't been offered to me as a token gesture of good will. At least that would indicate an interest in customer care. I'm sure you have your hands full, but if we can't rectify this issue then it doesn't bode well for the platform.

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  • admins

    siac host config netaddress 192.168.0.13 9982

    you need a colon between the ip address and the port number, not a space. The help dialog that got displayed indicates that the command was not understood.

    Further, that's a local IP address, you need to be supplying your global IP address. You can get that by typing "What is my IP address?" into Google. Can you share the result of doing that?

    Plus I'm disappointed that a refund of these erroneous SC deductions hasn't been offered to me as a token gesture of good will. At least that would indicate an interest in customer care. I'm sure you have your hands full, but if we can't rectify this issue then it doesn't bode well for the platform.

    Though the spending was not expected, I also do not believe that it is erroneous. The network can only track your IP address through these announcements, and if your IP address is changing you need to be making these announcements or you won't be getting any contracts at all. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with Sia, but please understand that we are a small company with an early product. You are currently talking to the CEO, which hopefully indicates that we care about solving our users problems. You can believe that I have a million other things on my plate. I appreciate that you've stuck it out this far and have been willing to do things like paste logs amd run commands in the terminal. If you drop an address I'm happy to refund the 500 SC that you've lost so far to automatic host announcements.

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  • A

    @Taek UPDATE! I'm tentatively optimistic that the problem has been cured (for the time being). I deactivated IPv6 in the network settings and it seems to have stopped the auto announcements. It's been about 36 hours without one occurring and I've received a couple of contracts during this time and more storage has been allocated. Deactivating IPv6 doesn't seem to have affected any other programmes, but this may cause a conflict further down the line when IPv6 adoption becomes more commonplace. Feel free to request further logs in future if it will help you counteract this problem. The refund offer is much appreciated. Good to know you're a fair person. I'm sure this is only one less thing in a list of many for you to worry about, but if there's anything we've both learnt it's to keep persevering!

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