3. 41K SC upload fee???

41K SC upload fee???

  • D

    @maol I did 13 week contracts and I believe the 7500 is for the whole period (I may be mistaken) but can be topped up every 6 weeks, it would still not explain the amount that left my wallet.

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  • @desgrippes

    Your not communicating renter vs hosting behaviors or your mixing them up in your last comment.

    Hosts post collateral
    Renters create an Allowance

    Neither paarty gets anything back until the end of the contract. Renters get unused allowance and Hosts get collateral back (per Sia documentation).

    Your last comment your posting a renter contract which suggests you have rented space from a host???
    Collateral is not a renter function its a host function as a result of a renter using the hosts allocated space.

    are you renting or hosting - there is a big difference.. the info you posted in your last comment looks like a a renter contract.
    Hosts have no way of knowing what the renter is using they just pay out collateral until contract expires or avail space is used up- and using the Expected SC earned amount.
    Renters only get unused allowance back at the end of the contract.. so once you have locked in with a host you have to wait 13- ?? weeks.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • M

    @reinisp
    prices (SC/USD ratio) only affect fixed fees. % fees like sea fund independent of exchange price

    Yes, it is a 3.9% but on whole sum of file contract. And contact sum is <locked collaterial (from host)> + <locked allowance (from renter)> + <contract creation fee(set by host)>.

    In your example risked collateral is only 329 SC. But renters with whom you have contracts already paid at least 1000 SC as fees to create contacts with your. And i think <100 SC paid to you for real use of your host resources. So for now fees are >1000% for your host. It will go down as actual use grow, but at current moment are incredibly high.

    (18990+18990/2)*0.039 = 1110.91 SC + <number of contracts> x <contract creation fee>
    Note: i assume your collateral set at your <storage price> x 2 You can replace by your actual numbers - It's just a rough estimate

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  • D

    I am renting only. I entered 'renters contract' in the terminal and it return all the contracts I had formed for my uploaded files. That one I highlighted seems to be the one that took the large chunk but I am unsure why 39K of it is kept over (i guess in case I download it or something?)

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  • D

    'Renter -v' returns:

    Renter info:
    Storage Spending: 765.3 mS
    Upload Spending: 43.65 mS
    Download Spending: 0 H
    Unspent Funds: 52.02 KS
    Total Allocated: 52.02 KS

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  • D

    @moorsc0de Quite correct, I changed 'renters' to 'hosts' to reflect the correct meaning. Thanks.

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  • M

    @desgrippes said in [41K SC upload fee???]:

    OK, despite my fears is does seem like it is locked and not spent, if I am reading the 'renters contract' data returned correctly?

    39.65 KS 0 H 1.618 KS 281.02 MB 126775

    That would appear to be the offended contract. Am I right in thinking 39.65K gets sent back on block 126775?

    Yes, 39 650 SC should return back to you after block 126775. You will be charged only around 42 SC (0.000281 x 50000 x 3) for already used space(280 MB). Here this rogue host: Link

    BUT only if you will never upload more data to this host or never renew this contract. And currently there is no any option to kick/blacklist individual bad host in sia client. So you need to block it by 3rd party software (like software firewall or in home router/modem settings) - sia will think host always offline(use both ip and domain name for block). Or do not upload any new files again until this contact is expired.

    Otherwise client will upload more data to this host and it will began to eat this locked money.

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  • @desgrippes So what version of Sia are you running.. since some have said this type of thing has been eliminated in recent versions. This shouldn't have occurred if using the most recent - are you?

    Technically this shouldn't have happened in ANY version if the platform is to be taken seriously.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • M

    @desgrippes said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    @maol I did 13 week contracts and I believe the 7500 is for the whole period (I may be mistaken) but can be topped up every 6 weeks, it would still not explain the amount that left my wallet.

    You can check this by running command in terminal: "renter allowance"
    It should show you both total allowance and period actually used by your client.

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  • R

    @moorsc0de
    There is no UI for the 1.3 version of siad.

    Taek told it should appear on Friday, but forgot to tell what week... LOL

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  • @reinisp said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    @moorsc0de
    SiaPulse and SiaHub is taking information from their UI (not the ui but the siad from their UI), not the other way. That is the problem. SiaHub shows scoring from 1.3, but the UI users still download the 1.2.2 as the current and get the scores from the outdated scoring routines.

    OK

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • R

    Who could tell me something about this transaction:
    d04d640c7ca788581bb37f5b66d50ecda26326ed068ea10fdece68e51ec25713
    I suspect what it is, but is it possible to be sure?

    @moorsc0de
    I think that is the end transaction for my renting period and my unspent allowance returned to my wallet.
    That would mean the unspent coins are returned. And that was in April. I think then the "current" version was 1.0.4 or 1.2.0.

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  • R

    Let's try out. I have at the moment the version 1.2.1 (UI) and 1.3.0 (hosting) running.
    type hostdb -v into the terminal and copy the info about 5 last hosts (the top5 scores).
    1.2.1:

      5:    ed25519:483bde42fef42cba862fd1ea5fbd878a5b29ff1ebe854c2f39ed07d07edf319a  84.219.196.111:9982                                     383530  39 SC                 9 SC                  1.000   111111
  4:    ed25519:280ea160a52b9658a17a61c039365b9138f3e09abb7ae4ed2ad4dc3222bd159f  sia.r3t.at:9982                                         392186  150 SC                1 SC                  1.000   111111
  3:    ed25519:f9ac0365b14a7e33137ed622aad27bf52ccd0bc1d238aa0794399630ba1beeb9  host.siadn.com:9982                                     432251  75 SC                 10 SC                 0.918   111111101111
  2:    ed25519:dbc24d575ccf99a307a6293f541ac0779516947bf9edba1fd21fe87ad6e018bd  zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982                  599213  70 SC                 35 SC                 0.991   111111111111
  1:    ed25519:3d57a0f24df26e1055924ab191b9838ebaa56a84d9662ed372b98c738d7e074c  99.248.51.247:9982                                      713349  50 SC                 25 SC                 0.998   11011111111

    1.3.0:

      5:    ed25519:f9ac0365b14a7e33137ed622aad27bf52ccd0bc1d238aa0794399630ba1beeb9  host.siadn.com:9982                                4.95726e+08  75 SC                 10 SC                 0.984   111111110001111111111111111111
  4:    ed25519:ed5578ad8a0f5bdaf24c5568b6f140ea44e556e10ed6db600d2890912e6b11ea  ru-moscow.sia.ix.gs:9982                           3.39415e+09  10 SC                 1 SC                  0.985   111111111111111111111111111111
  3:    ed25519:dbc24d575ccf99a307a6293f541ac0779516947bf9edba1fd21fe87ad6e018bd  zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982             3.94594e+09  70 SC                 35 SC                 0.996   111111111111111111111111111111
  2:    ed25519:8d33cb63f933a036300a05d696c8c683bb9cd4b6a92f5b17975422709cfc79d5  eu-central.sia.ix.gs:9982                          6.41817e+11  10 SC                 1 pS                  1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  1:    ed25519:00252176ef25cce5bc4981d1e5522219cac9e41cfe6051aaf9369b32acc50d99  sia.eusap.com:9982                                 2.36875e+12  20 SC                 1 pS                  0.990   111001111111111111111111111111

    The first number following the address is the score for host selection when setting allowance...
    Which hosts are the topscorers in your hostdb?

    edit, from siahub:

    0.01282459 / #5	176.9.143.138:9982	5.5 TB	91.0 GB	2%	50 SC
0.02207321 / #4	ru-moscow.sia.ix.gs:9982	990.0 GB	0 B	0%	10 SC	View
0.02387527 / #3	zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982	5.4 TB	864.2 GB	16%	70 SC	View
4.19997150 / #2	eu-central.sia.ix.gs:9982	10.0 TB	0 B	0%	10 SC	View
15.50082455 / #1	sia.eusap.com:9982	6.3 TB	107.1 GB	2%	20 SC	View

    host.siadn.com:9982 is #8 in siahub
    siahubs #5 is #262 on my host. I would say my host thinks it has problems with uptime.

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  • @reinisp said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    d04d640c7ca788581bb37f5b66d50ecda26326ed068ea10fdece68e51ec25713

    u need to create seperate posts because your mixing in too much stuff... I cant even follow what your asking.

    I mean we are here to help=- but spending all day deciphering Sia .. thats what Dev gets paid to do.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • M

    @reinisp said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    I am not sure what are you trying to do? Host database and host ratings in it are different for ALL clients.

    And these differences occur not only because of the different client versions used (in which the rating calculation formulas may differ), but also on how long a particular copy of the client was online and how many times it was restarted before the database snapshot was taken.
    Because it depends on how many hosts the client managed to interrogate (by default, only 200 are checked, and now there are more than 600 online hosts in network, my own host discover only 510 from >600 total after few days of work and ~5 restarts) and how many statics on the hosts up-time it managed to accumulate.
    Because of this factors, each client has its own rating table, significantly differ from any other table from any other client. For example, here is my table with top-10 hosts from a client(v. 1.2.2) worked for about 3 days on the network

      10:   ed25519:3d57a0f24df26e1055924ab191b9838ebaa56a84d9662ed372b98c738d7e074c  99.248.51.247:9982                                 1.65922e+06  50 SC                 25 SC                 1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  9:    ed25519:f9ac0365b14a7e33137ed622aad27bf52ccd0bc1d238aa0794399630ba1beeb9  host.siadn.com:9982                                1.79133e+06  75 SC                 10 SC                 0.967   111111110011111111111111111111
  8:    ed25519:997480e6074e8580accc097ec23d6116a5f35657008f70133db20b2f23f465a3  [2001:41d0:a:1785::1]:9982                         3.10865e+06  10 SC                 1 SC                  0.974   111111111111111111111110111111
  7:    ed25519:f8de8a0b81783035692c004975825f26e23b9a4825c55269d0bdadf34008b94d  176.12.25.174:9982                                  3.3816e+06  1000 mS               1 SC                  1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  6:    ed25519:3fb09f23482814e2eb7978ead26ea09835f276fde5a1a5515662478e26d5a487  pingpongen5.ddns.net:9982                          4.03854e+06  75 SC                 15 SC                 0.927   111111100001111111111111111111
  5:    ed25519:d9d01b722fb0ea50de9aac3950fc43308243ac2eb840d794f32dfbe7d13f0ea7  176.9.143.138:9982                                 7.82771e+06  50 SC                 1 SC                  1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  4:    ed25519:ed5578ad8a0f5bdaf24c5568b6f140ea44e556e10ed6db600d2890912e6b11ea  ru-moscow.sia.ix.gs:9982                           1.24774e+07  10 SC                 1 SC                  1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  3:    ed25519:dbc24d575ccf99a307a6293f541ac0779516947bf9edba1fd21fe87ad6e018bd  zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982             1.45058e+07  70 SC                 35 SC                 1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  2:    ed25519:8d33cb63f933a036300a05d696c8c683bb9cd4b6a92f5b17975422709cfc79d5  eu-central.sia.ix.gs:9982                          2.35941e+09  10 SC                 1 pS                  1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  1:    ed25519:00252176ef25cce5bc4981d1e5522219cac9e41cfe6051aaf9369b32acc50d99  sia.eusap.com:9982                                 7.72038e+09  20 SC                 1 pS                  0.968   100011111111111111111111111111

    P.S.
    I agree with @moorsc0de. If you want to plunge into the details of how ratings and choosing host work, better start a new separate topic and ask the moderators to move a few recent post(including this one) to it.

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  • M

    @moorsc0de said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    and on top you dont even know how many contracts came in each day because the v1.2.2 was incrementally increasing contract count every time the UI was rebooted. So the actual ledger of collateral is a figure derived from what? There is no file to actually go back to and make a coin by coin or contract by contract audit to know if this is working properly. Your just looking at numbers on a screen.

    Just found what this bug (increasing contract count at every restart) not in UI (GUI) part. It is in the core code (siad) itself. I use siad without GUI and have seen the same - after each daemon restart contract counter increases.
    I even figured out pattern - it simply add actual number of contacts to previous value.
    So if you have 15 contracts for example counter will be doing +15 at each client restart.
    If you check counter before and after restart and do new-old = actual number of active contracts on host.
    Of course this is another bug and needs to be fixed - just workaround for now.

    Contract collateral stat on other hand calculated correctly by my observation. It is not depended on contract counter and calculation based on blockchain transactions.

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  • @Mad_Max
    Yes this has been ongoing- now whether or not you have pinpointed WHERE the issue is coming from is a totally diff ball of wax..
    Its almost pointless because until the dev team fixesit the issue will continue.... but this issue is known by them- why it has not been fixed or maybe it will be is another question too.

    But let me ask this question.. Sia cant count the number of contracts properly.. but they can provide encrypted 3x redundancy across hundreds of nodes? (no answer required)
    Confidence very low...very

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • R

    @moorsc0de , @Mad_Max
    I see, I could be wrong with my assumptions.
    In that case the fundamental problem would be the renters node not updating the hostdb regularly and in short enough periods.

    My post regarding my particular transaction was meant as an example that unspent allocation IS actually coming back to the renter not only "per documentation".

    Let's hope today is that Friday (and not again the next one) the new updated UI is released and look if these issues persist.

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  • @reinisp "HOPE"??? lol

    I think people are so desperate for Sia to work is they have been sold a bill of goods that is not Truthful. So "HOPE" is the order of the day now... but in technology- there is no hope. You either code or you do not.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • M

    @reinisp In theory it should be ok - current renter module scan 200 hosts immediately after start (and do additional 200 scans each few hours of online work) . And it only need select 50 best hosts to make initial batch of contacts.
    Even considering that 200 hosts are randomly selected and that the user can start the process of contracts formation(by setting allowance) immediately after the launch. Among the randomly selected 200 hosts from current network, will be enough good hosts to drop all rogue hosts at least below the 100th position and never choose them again after very first scan. Probably the hosting prices will be far from most optimal point in this case (because renter did not discover best offers at this stage yet), but to check 200 hosts should be enough to does not choose the fraudulent hosts with absurdly high tariffs.
    But for some reason it still happens sometimes. Apparently there are more errors in renter logic/code.

    Let's hope today is that Friday (and not again the next one) the new updated UI is released and look if these issues persist.

    Nope. Not this Friday again. And I think that it will not be ready next Friday either.

    I think this is a patch to the renter logic devs mentioned to you: https://github.com/NebulousLabs/Sia/commit/59105d8a4a5a845f22977072ee2b4f3945d37bc2
    As you can see source code of patch was published only 9 days ago. It is not verified by other programmers and did not tested yet. So i think it will takes few weeks more before updated renter logic will be officially published and ready for use by ordinary users of sia.

    My post regarding my particular transaction was meant as an example that unspent allocation IS actually coming back to the renter not only "per documentation".

    And you got all this 52 690 coins back (minus only 10 SC from original 52 700 SC)?

    Actually this does not look like a return of locked collateral. But more like ordinary transaction. But i am not sure - i can not check detail because official block explorer is buggy too. If i try to check parent transaction or history it throw errors - "Hash not Found in Database" and "Block Not Found Database"

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