Bitsquare
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Bitsquare is a more decentralized way to trade altcoins, and they have support for siacoin! Currently in alpha, members of the community that have used bitsquare are reporting that it's already a pretty usable alpha, and for the most part are recommending it to others.
As a point of caution, I do recommend that you only trade small amounts - if you aren't willing to lose it to a bug, don't give it to alpha/beta software. That said, bitsquare is pretty cool and development appears to be moving quickly, so at the very least everyone should give it a try.
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I have used BitSquare now for a couple of days and conducted about 5-6 trades. Its been a great experience. Clearly, there is some appeal to trade through a wallet on your own computer rather than depositing funds on an exchange where the risk of loosing funds through hacks etc is much larger.
There are some things new users to BitSquare should know:
- when you run BitSquare the first time it creates a bitcoin wallet on your computer. This wallet is not locked with a passphrase by default!. You can set a passphrase on the "Account" screen.
- Prices are listed in the direction ALT -> BTC, rather than BTC -> ALT as most exchanges do. Meaning, when the app says you are are "selling" or "buying", just keep in mind you are "selling/buying" bitcoin.
- If you place offers to be listed in the Order Book, the app needs to be running for the offers to be seen by others. The moment you disconnect from the internet or close the app, your offers disappear from the global order book.
- All trades are manual! Meaning, even if someone initiates a trade with you, the order does not get processes automatically. You need to manually confirm deposits and make deposits either from the app or your altcoin wallet.
- Siacoin is not one of the default listed "main" coins. To see Siacoin as an option in the current selection dropdown, add Siacoin to the list in the "Settings" screen.
- You need to fund your wallet with more bitcoins than you expect to trade. This is because for each trade, there is also a small deposit to be paid, which is intended to deter scammers and jerks.
Happy trading!
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I'm not very convinced by this being AGPL.
I think AGPL is meant (if it makes sense at all) for client-server stuff, where clients "should" see what code is being use on the program "they" are running (albeit non-locally or semi-locally).
But using AGPL on a peer-to-peer network means forcing everyone on the network to release their sources even if they make changes, including trivial changes, for themselves only. This is not in a free software spirit in my book.
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this exchange is not for newbee of crypto world, as it need 0.1 btc to be paid as collateral to start the first trade.
I do not think it will be mass adopted.Any way, the decentralised model is good. This model was discussed by us. I am happy to see someone will try and prove this.
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@xiahui135 said:
this exchange is not for newbee of crypto world, as it need 0.1 btc to be paid as collateral to start the first trade.
I do not recall paying a collateral of 0.1 BTC before the first trade.
There is a security deposit of 0.01 that has to be paid before every trade, however. That's less than $5.
Is this what you meant? If so, I don't think that is a major obstacle for adoption.
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Are there trading fees at all?
But using AGPL on a peer-to-peer network means forcing everyone on the network to release their sources even if they make changes, including trivial changes, for themselves only. This is not in a free software spirit in my book.
In practice, it ends up not hurting small developers very much. Is anyone going to give you trouble if you make changes and don't release them to the world? Likely, nobody is ever going to know. It's not a problem until you are distributing the altered software to others at a large scale, and even then people are really only likely to come after you if they feel like you are profiting unfairly or if your actions are costing them a significant amount of profit.
In general I do agree that software should be as free as possible, which includes allowing other people to make non-free changes to the software, but I think there's something to be said about how beneficial copyleft licenses like the LGPL have been.
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@Taek said:
Are there trading fees at all?
Yes, the developers get a fee in the default client. This is described in the whitepaper, under "Business model", where it says "transaction fees go in part to the developers and in part to the arbitrators".
And due to the AGPL, you cannot legally change your client and use it on the network while removing that provision without telling everyone that you're doing so (i.e. releasing the source code).
Call mine bad faith, but I feel the two choices may be related; it bad faith based on being burned in the past by "no evil" doers.Is anyone going to give you trouble if you make changes and don't release them to the world? Likely, nobody is ever going to know.
Since money is involved, yes, I think it's possible they might give you trouble for changing the fee-related behavior. As to knowing, I'm not sure how anonymous the whole thing is, but I think not very, by default.
I think there's something to be said about how beneficial copyleft licenses like the LGPL have been.
"Freedom to do what you want with it" needs to be weighed against "freedom for people to keep being able to use and modify it when someone else changes it". This is the usual equation. But... choosing a license that enshrines a fee-related behavior making it difficult to change the code is a new variable, unrelated to the old equation, and actually hinders people from modifying modifications of the code, while purportedly making it easier.
You also have something resembling developer fees in Sia, but I'm happier to pay those knowing that, if I want, I can modify the software and if the network rejects my modification's behaviors, that's just the network's collective choice, and not enforced by licenses.
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@Taek said:
Are there trading fees at all?
The fees on Bitsquare are:
Bitcoin mining fee: 0.0002 BTC
Offer fee: 0.0005 BTC
Taker fee: 0.001 BTC
Security deposit fee: 0.01 BTC (returned after trade is completed)Trading fees (offer or taker fee) goes to the arbitrator at the moment. Later to the DAO shareholders (not implemented yet).
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@in-cred-u-lous said:
Security deposit fee: 0.01 BTC
Wait, really? I thought I had read 0.1 BTC, which would have made me testing it out of the question for the time being...
Update: it does say 0.1 BTC in the FAQ here https://bitsquare.io/faq/#6 - where did you read otherwise?
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@LjL said:
Wait, really? I thought I had read 0.1 BTC, which would have made me testing it out of the question for the time being...
Update: it does say 0.1 BTC in the FAQ here https://bitsquare.io/faq/#6 - where did you read otherwise?
Manfred Karrer quoted 0.01 BTC in a thread on the Bitsquare mailing list:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bitsquare/nrxRdfTVFokAlso, this is the amount quoted when you create an order in the Bitsquare app (screenshot).
