3. 41K SC upload fee???

41K SC upload fee???

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    @moorsc0de
    SiaPulse and SiaHub is taking information from their UI (not the ui but the siad from their UI), not the other way. That is the problem. SiaHub shows scoring from 1.3, but the UI users still download the 1.2.2 as the current and get the scores from the outdated scoring routines.

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  • M

    @reinisp said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    Regarding contract fees- 3-5 SC are normal one time fees in my opinion.
    Of course, 250SC just for initial renter setup (50 hosts) looks a lot , but that is the price you pay the hoster for being ready to accept your files (locking part of the hosts collateral). Upload and download fees are infrastructure related- someone has to pay for the used bandwidth. Why should the hoster alone bear all the responsibility and costs for the renters wishes by sacrificing his available coins, storage space and network bandwidth?

    up to 50-250 SC for initial renter setup (50 hosts, each charging 1-5 SC for contract creation) is nothing compared to other fees charged from current renters. Looks for example there (example of first 10 contacts for new renter setup): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KD1tdxc78okXeu4c2z4vWnVr1p9aaaqCXlwfaMmNZ9M/

    Currently renters charged for contract creation (this fee goes to hosts) AND seafund fees in advance on full allowance and full collateral. Even if three is no actual use(upload,storage, etc) yet. Is more like 20-30 SC fees per 1 contact and 1000-1500 SC fees for initial renter setup.

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  • @reinisp Therein lies a problem... eh?

    I'm not quite sure how long Sia expects to stay afloat like this. Are they still afloat? hmmm

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • R

    @moorsc0de
    This is the reason why I'm telling to not use the "current" release (1.2.2) for renting.

    @Mad_Max
    I would say simply the coin price is/was to high.

    As I understand Siafund fee is a bit less than 4% from the locked collateral That should not be the issue.
    Locking the allowance in advance (the same way as collateral) is acceptable, but it should be the expected, documented and explained behaviour, not unexpected.
    For instance, my host tells me:

         Locked Collateral: 18.99 KS
     Risked Collateral: 329 SC
     Lost Collateral:   0 H

    It means my balance has nearly 20KS less, but only 329 are "used" (risked).

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  • @reinisp You telling me this is a mute point.

    Sia Ui has been distributed to anyone with an internet connection and capable of installing and actually spending coins in it. That's the over arching problem (not me). I already know about this.. but how many other people do not?
    How many other people still using the old version? Why was the old version even deployed in this type of way?

    Im thinking about other people besides myself. I sacrificed my SC to warn people when I saw it was not on the level- not to warn myself.
    So lets say Sia never saw this basic oversight.. what else was overlooked? This is the reality I have mentioned.. its ridiculous how people keep getting drug along in this Sia affair.

    Create something that works (as designed)- then release it... its that simple. Releasing things ... pumping the platform on internet and in the slack is damn near selling snake oil.. without the SNAKE OIL label.

    The image you just posted is what I just explained. But you have no idea if that collateral will come back until the final day of the minimum 13 week contract.. and on top you dont even know how many contracts came in each day because the v1.2.2 was incrementally increasing contract count every time the UI was rebooted. So the actual ledger of collateral is a figure derived from what? There is no file to actually go back to and make a coin by coin or contract by contract audit to know if this is working properly. Your just looking at numbers on a screen.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • D

    OK, despite my fears is does seem like it is locked and not spent, if I am reading the 'renters contract' data returned correctly?

    marfeusftp.myftp.org:9982 39.65 KS 0 H 1.618 KS 281.02 MB 126775 8f767e913845e531ebe8ba063614b46b27740119d0bdcdbb1c0cc18df67594f7

    That would appear to be the offended contract. Am I right in thinking 39.65K gets sent back on block 126775?

    Still, I fail to see why this much SC left my wallet at the outset. It has resulted in me deleting my data from the hosts and xferring my remaining SC back onto the exchange which I would of course prefer not to do.

    The UI is frankly dire, completely unintuitive, I have no idea if that is a bug or just badly implemented correct behavior. I do know I should not have my allowance exceeded whether by poor code design or otherwise. I am semi-computer literate, I can only imagine the effect that would have on someone less able to analyse what happened and get help.

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  • D

    @maol I did 13 week contracts and I believe the 7500 is for the whole period (I may be mistaken) but can be topped up every 6 weeks, it would still not explain the amount that left my wallet.

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  • @desgrippes

    Your not communicating renter vs hosting behaviors or your mixing them up in your last comment.

    Hosts post collateral
    Renters create an Allowance

    Neither paarty gets anything back until the end of the contract. Renters get unused allowance and Hosts get collateral back (per Sia documentation).

    Your last comment your posting a renter contract which suggests you have rented space from a host???
    Collateral is not a renter function its a host function as a result of a renter using the hosts allocated space.

    are you renting or hosting - there is a big difference.. the info you posted in your last comment looks like a a renter contract.
    Hosts have no way of knowing what the renter is using they just pay out collateral until contract expires or avail space is used up- and using the Expected SC earned amount.
    Renters only get unused allowance back at the end of the contract.. so once you have locked in with a host you have to wait 13- ?? weeks.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • M

    @reinisp
    prices (SC/USD ratio) only affect fixed fees. % fees like sea fund independent of exchange price

    Yes, it is a 3.9% but on whole sum of file contract. And contact sum is <locked collaterial (from host)> + <locked allowance (from renter)> + <contract creation fee(set by host)>.

    In your example risked collateral is only 329 SC. But renters with whom you have contracts already paid at least 1000 SC as fees to create contacts with your. And i think <100 SC paid to you for real use of your host resources. So for now fees are >1000% for your host. It will go down as actual use grow, but at current moment are incredibly high.

    (18990+18990/2)*0.039 = 1110.91 SC + <number of contracts> x <contract creation fee>
    Note: i assume your collateral set at your <storage price> x 2 You can replace by your actual numbers - It's just a rough estimate

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  • D

    I am renting only. I entered 'renters contract' in the terminal and it return all the contracts I had formed for my uploaded files. That one I highlighted seems to be the one that took the large chunk but I am unsure why 39K of it is kept over (i guess in case I download it or something?)

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  • D

    'Renter -v' returns:

    Renter info:
    Storage Spending: 765.3 mS
    Upload Spending: 43.65 mS
    Download Spending: 0 H
    Unspent Funds: 52.02 KS
    Total Allocated: 52.02 KS

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  • D

    @moorsc0de Quite correct, I changed 'renters' to 'hosts' to reflect the correct meaning. Thanks.

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  • M

    @desgrippes said in [41K SC upload fee???]:

    OK, despite my fears is does seem like it is locked and not spent, if I am reading the 'renters contract' data returned correctly?

    39.65 KS 0 H 1.618 KS 281.02 MB 126775

    That would appear to be the offended contract. Am I right in thinking 39.65K gets sent back on block 126775?

    Yes, 39 650 SC should return back to you after block 126775. You will be charged only around 42 SC (0.000281 x 50000 x 3) for already used space(280 MB). Here this rogue host: Link

    BUT only if you will never upload more data to this host or never renew this contract. And currently there is no any option to kick/blacklist individual bad host in sia client. So you need to block it by 3rd party software (like software firewall or in home router/modem settings) - sia will think host always offline(use both ip and domain name for block). Or do not upload any new files again until this contact is expired.

    Otherwise client will upload more data to this host and it will began to eat this locked money.

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  • @desgrippes So what version of Sia are you running.. since some have said this type of thing has been eliminated in recent versions. This shouldn't have occurred if using the most recent - are you?

    Technically this shouldn't have happened in ANY version if the platform is to be taken seriously.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • M

    @desgrippes said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    @maol I did 13 week contracts and I believe the 7500 is for the whole period (I may be mistaken) but can be topped up every 6 weeks, it would still not explain the amount that left my wallet.

    You can check this by running command in terminal: "renter allowance"
    It should show you both total allowance and period actually used by your client.

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  • R

    @moorsc0de
    There is no UI for the 1.3 version of siad.

    Taek told it should appear on Friday, but forgot to tell what week... LOL

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  • @reinisp said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    @moorsc0de
    SiaPulse and SiaHub is taking information from their UI (not the ui but the siad from their UI), not the other way. That is the problem. SiaHub shows scoring from 1.3, but the UI users still download the 1.2.2 as the current and get the scores from the outdated scoring routines.

    OK

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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  • R

    Who could tell me something about this transaction:
    d04d640c7ca788581bb37f5b66d50ecda26326ed068ea10fdece68e51ec25713
    I suspect what it is, but is it possible to be sure?

    @moorsc0de
    I think that is the end transaction for my renting period and my unspent allowance returned to my wallet.
    That would mean the unspent coins are returned. And that was in April. I think then the "current" version was 1.0.4 or 1.2.0.

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  • R

    Let's try out. I have at the moment the version 1.2.1 (UI) and 1.3.0 (hosting) running.
    type hostdb -v into the terminal and copy the info about 5 last hosts (the top5 scores).
    1.2.1:

      5:    ed25519:483bde42fef42cba862fd1ea5fbd878a5b29ff1ebe854c2f39ed07d07edf319a  84.219.196.111:9982                                     383530  39 SC                 9 SC                  1.000   111111
  4:    ed25519:280ea160a52b9658a17a61c039365b9138f3e09abb7ae4ed2ad4dc3222bd159f  sia.r3t.at:9982                                         392186  150 SC                1 SC                  1.000   111111
  3:    ed25519:f9ac0365b14a7e33137ed622aad27bf52ccd0bc1d238aa0794399630ba1beeb9  host.siadn.com:9982                                     432251  75 SC                 10 SC                 0.918   111111101111
  2:    ed25519:dbc24d575ccf99a307a6293f541ac0779516947bf9edba1fd21fe87ad6e018bd  zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982                  599213  70 SC                 35 SC                 0.991   111111111111
  1:    ed25519:3d57a0f24df26e1055924ab191b9838ebaa56a84d9662ed372b98c738d7e074c  99.248.51.247:9982                                      713349  50 SC                 25 SC                 0.998   11011111111

    1.3.0:

      5:    ed25519:f9ac0365b14a7e33137ed622aad27bf52ccd0bc1d238aa0794399630ba1beeb9  host.siadn.com:9982                                4.95726e+08  75 SC                 10 SC                 0.984   111111110001111111111111111111
  4:    ed25519:ed5578ad8a0f5bdaf24c5568b6f140ea44e556e10ed6db600d2890912e6b11ea  ru-moscow.sia.ix.gs:9982                           3.39415e+09  10 SC                 1 SC                  0.985   111111111111111111111111111111
  3:    ed25519:dbc24d575ccf99a307a6293f541ac0779516947bf9edba1fd21fe87ad6e018bd  zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982             3.94594e+09  70 SC                 35 SC                 0.996   111111111111111111111111111111
  2:    ed25519:8d33cb63f933a036300a05d696c8c683bb9cd4b6a92f5b17975422709cfc79d5  eu-central.sia.ix.gs:9982                          6.41817e+11  10 SC                 1 pS                  1.000   111111111111111111111111111111
  1:    ed25519:00252176ef25cce5bc4981d1e5522219cac9e41cfe6051aaf9369b32acc50d99  sia.eusap.com:9982                                 2.36875e+12  20 SC                 1 pS                  0.990   111001111111111111111111111111

    The first number following the address is the score for host selection when setting allowance...
    Which hosts are the topscorers in your hostdb?

    edit, from siahub:

    0.01282459 / #5	176.9.143.138:9982	5.5 TB	91.0 GB	2%	50 SC
0.02207321 / #4	ru-moscow.sia.ix.gs:9982	990.0 GB	0 B	0%	10 SC	View
0.02387527 / #3	zeusishosting.remotewebaccess.com:9982	5.4 TB	864.2 GB	16%	70 SC	View
4.19997150 / #2	eu-central.sia.ix.gs:9982	10.0 TB	0 B	0%	10 SC	View
15.50082455 / #1	sia.eusap.com:9982	6.3 TB	107.1 GB	2%	20 SC	View

    host.siadn.com:9982 is #8 in siahub
    siahubs #5 is #262 on my host. I would say my host thinks it has problems with uptime.

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  • @reinisp said in 41K SC upload fee???:

    d04d640c7ca788581bb37f5b66d50ecda26326ed068ea10fdece68e51ec25713

    u need to create seperate posts because your mixing in too much stuff... I cant even follow what your asking.

    I mean we are here to help=- but spending all day deciphering Sia .. thats what Dev gets paid to do.

    Unofficial User / Tester / Analyst of Sia ( w/Renter and Host experience)

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